If that Check Isn’t at the Maildrop Today . . .

by Little Miss Attila on December 16, 2009

I’m calling Goldstein. Or, as I like to refer to him, GuidoWest: muscle to the Blogosphere.

{ 14 comments… read them below or add one }

Joe December 16, 2009 at 3:09 pm

One of the best comments on the Patterico thread (and the one Patterico ignores):

Mr. Frey says:

Namely: if your theories of language lead you to justify a very public verbal assault on a 14-year-old girl, maybe it’s time to tweak those theories a bit.

The quickest reply to which is simple: If your theories of language allow you to redefine a bad joke about an 18-year-old into a verbal assault on a 14-year-old, maybe it’s time to admit that your theories aren’t very fair to authorial intent. Mr. Frey’s continuing insistence on misrepresenting his targets’ intent in the most unflattering terms is at the heart of the past week’s conflict, and I sincerely wish somebody around here would recognize exactly what he’s doing.

Comment by Squid — 12/16/2009 @ 1:04 pm

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Little Miss Attila December 16, 2009 at 3:43 pm

Well, here’s the thing: I was one of those who were demanding an apology from Letterman. Or, to be more exact, I was all about the “I don’t want to financially support this guy who comes across as so hostile to women; how about y’all?”

So Jeff and I were on opposite sides of that issue–but I didn’t go calling him a liar and a fraud for wanting to give Letterman the benefit of a doubt in the particularly delicate arena of humor.

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Joe December 16, 2009 at 5:42 pm

There is nothing wrong in disliking the joke. I found it offensive, because it was obvious the barb was directed to Sarah Palin (and I find most attacks on her stupid) and having the host carry the water for the Democratic Party so hamfistedly offends me. It was also generally insulting to women. I also do not think there is anything wrong on calling Letterman on any of that, although all would have been forgiven if the joke was funny (which it was not).

The issue is should we just engage in faux outrage over it? And Jeff makes the point we should not. And for Patterico to bring that up months later to attack Jeff is just weak.

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Patterico December 16, 2009 at 6:37 pm

“So Jeff and I were on opposite sides of that issue–but I didn’t go calling him a liar and a fraud for wanting to give Letterman the benefit of a doubt in the particularly delicate arena of humor.”

Nor did I.

I have called him a liar and a fraud for being a liar and a fraud.

As to Letterman, I said merely that, if Jeff’s views on language led him to defend that sick joke, then maybe his views on language needed tweaking. But that I would be happy to debate him about it.

A debate from which he has run, so far, using excuses like “Well, I can’t comment on Patterico’s blog, so how could I possibly find a way to respond to him! After all, it’s not like I have a blog of my own . . .” (Not actual quote, obviously.)

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Patterico December 16, 2009 at 6:38 pm

“The issue is should we just engage in faux outrage over it?”

Where is “faux” about the outrage felt by those of us who are sick of people dragging Sarah Palin’s children into public view — especially in a nasty way as Letterman did.

Ain’t nothing faux here, Cut-and-Paste Joe.

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Joy McCann December 17, 2009 at 12:01 am

Do you guys ever get tired? I mean, is there an “off” switch? A failsafe?

I so don’t get this. Are you two secretly sheepherders or something? Or you used to be, and it ended badly?

I’m going to watch TV; text me if there’s any chance of peace in our time.

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Patterico December 17, 2009 at 12:23 am

“Do you guys ever get tired? I mean, is there an “off” switch? A failsafe?”

I can tell you’re distressed by the continuing discussion. It’s evident from your refusal to post on it.

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Joe December 17, 2009 at 5:36 am

“The issue is should we just engage in faux outrage over it?”

Where is “faux” about the outrage felt by those of us who are sick of people dragging Sarah Palin’s children into public view — especially in a nasty way as Letterman did.

Ain’t nothing faux here, Cut-and-Paste Joe.

Spare me asshole. I was right up there going after Sullivan for doing exactly that. I have no problem criticizing Letterman over doing it too, but I am not going to pretend that joke was in the same class as Trig Trutherism. Hell, Jeff did not endorse the joke, noting the joke was crude and biased (and worse of crimes not funny), but in the end it was a stupid joke. Put it in perspective. As much as we might disagree with Letterman carrying water for the left, is not a basis to call CPS on Letterman. Your whole rationale for bringing up this issue again months later is because you think you can use it as a wedge against Jeff.

Jeff has out argued you on every point. And that bothers you. Rather than worrying about winning, worry about being right.

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CGHill December 17, 2009 at 5:44 am

“Are you two secretly sheepherders or something? Or you used to be, and it ended badly?”

For the win, as the young folks say.

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Joe December 17, 2009 at 5:47 am

The madness of King Patterico:

I’m going to summarily delete any comment that whines that this debate is uninteresting, or something along those lines. If your comment contains any hint of such a sentiment it will get nuked.

You don’t join a group discussion to piss on it. If you don’t like the topic, there’s always the next post or the next blog. I post about what I find interesting. If you happen to find it interesting as well, how lucky. If not, move on.

This discussion will not last forever, as it will not interest me forever. But for now, it does.

Comment by Patterico — 12/17/2009 @ 1:41 am

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Joe December 17, 2009 at 6:01 am

Comment by Jeff G. on 12/16 @ 11:11 pm #

Odds that Frey tries to tie the Fr*sch thing in with the Palin children thing? I’m giving 3:2 for. Takers?

Let me preemptively deal with that (again, as I did in the comments to the Letterman post when Treacher tried it). Fr*sch is a nutjob who has had countless run-ins with the law. Her parents keep her flush with cash, so she hasn’t suffered the consequences of many of her actions. She is completely unpredictable. She stalked not only me, but my attorney, her own attorney, Jeralyn Merritt, and even tried getting my family’s personal information by contacting the police department here in CO.

Conversely, David Letterman is a comedian. And a fairly prominent one at that. The idea that he might stalk the Palin family is ludicrous. That he’d do them physical harm is even moreso. Further, my son is not a public figure. So the two situations have nothing in common save that a “child” was involved. Except that the child being joked about by Letterman was a pregnant young adult whose boyfriend was doing the talk show circuit.

Frey has proven he can sink lower than I’d thought he’d go already. So I’ve no doubt at this point he’ll go all in. If he does, I won’t address it anymore than I just have. That was an incredibly trying time for my family .

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Darleen Click December 17, 2009 at 9:12 am

I can tell you’re distressed by the continuing discussion. It’s evident from your refusal to post on it.

Geez, Pat, are you going to stalk Joy now because she isn’t posting on what you demand she post on?

YOU dragged up the months-ago Letterman kerfuffle in a desperate effort to keep the sh*t going.

As I’ve said before, one can explain Letterman’s “joke” from a linguistic view without accepting it on an aesthetic level — it is akin to arguing with an engineer about the aesthetics of the bridge but still accepting the bridge is not going to fall down.

Sarah Palin had the right to publically take Letterman to task for his lazy misogyny… her daughter was the object of the joke. Palin never asked for his firing. AND Letterman apologized.

Palin, AFAIK, has never brought it up again. Maybe, Pat, you ought to send her a note.

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Little Miss Attila December 17, 2009 at 9:50 am

Thanks, Dar. But Pat’s zinger was well-aimed: there is an apparent contradiction (and perhaps a real one) between my willingness to skim traffic off the top of this debate and my relentless complaining about its tone.

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trfogey December 17, 2009 at 10:49 am

Actually, LMA, you’ve done us all a valuable service in allowing Patterico to show us all what a small and petty person he really is. Watching his meltdown in your comment section the other night was an eye-opening experience for some of us.

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