I Don’t See It.

by Little Miss Attila on April 25, 2010

There’s no way anyone from the Southwest is going to mistake an American citizen for a Mexican national.

It’s got nothing to do with race, and not as much to do with English language skills as one might suppose. And there are plenty of people who might-or-might-not-be illegal—lightly Americanized immigrants—whom the cops might speak to for a few minutes in an attempt to suss out if there’s a problem.

But there are plenty of people who are unambiguously illegal immigrants, and they really stick out. Not because of skin color, and not because of language skills. It’s about clothing, body language, and the way they carry themselves.

{ 22 comments… read them below or add one }

Glenn Mark Cassel AMH1(AW) USN Ret. April 25, 2010 at 9:07 am

Should have seen my baby sister’s reaction on Face Book! She is married to a United States Citizen of Hispanic Descent. She calls it racial profiling.
I understand that it has to do with the sovereignty and security of The Republic and I hate paying the tab for those looking for the obama money from his stash. Remember, We The People are the “Stash” I have been paying taxes since I was 18. I am 55 and it continues to get worse. Arizona is positioning itself to become the Fort Sumter of a new civil war. One that will be most likely fought in the courts. Because the current CinC is going to sic his AG and the kids on Arizona.
But when he made the statement that Arizona was “misguided” he stepped in that pile of fresh cow flop! And the 10th Amendment will be put to the test. And I firmly believe that some states may begin the process of secession from the Union. Because they no longer consider themselves a part of the socialist and communist plans laid by the obama administration.

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John April 25, 2010 at 4:38 pm

We cannot be any more than a half-assed nation at best if we must simply allow entry to everyone desiring it. There are people whom we have a right to stop at the borders; we are under no ethical bound to first let them in, and then go find them and deport them.

And we cannot meet this criterion if we lack the ability to stop all entry altogether. This does not mean that we must seal the borders, but it does mean that we must be able to seal the borders.

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Gordon April 25, 2010 at 8:12 pm

You’re right, they won’t.

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Foxfier April 25, 2010 at 9:03 pm

I figure when folks insist on something, and you show them there’s no way it’s true within the law/known facts / rules/whatever both sides agree on, and they still insist on it, you’re arguing world view rather than the topic.

I wonder, where were all these folks when I got stopped in a US Navy van and asked to prove I am a citizen? In Cali, an hour from the border.

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Little Miss Attila April 25, 2010 at 9:08 pm

Oh, but that doesn’t happen, you see–that thing that happened to you? Totally didn’t happen. Welcome to Wonderland, Alice.

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Foxfier April 25, 2010 at 9:14 pm

*head desk* Yeah, kind of covers it.

I’m all about trying to figure out how laws can be used wrong, but there needs to be SOMETHING that allows it….

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tomg51 April 26, 2010 at 4:34 am

In NW Houston ID’ing is easy:
-do you live in the woods along Stuebner-Airline road?
-do you find work by standing in groups at the side of the road?

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Little Miss Attila April 26, 2010 at 7:06 am

The ones that work normal jobs and pay taxes I’m not too excited about. But in this day and age we need to start doing background checks and get the criminals filtered out. Plus, Mexico needs to get its act together, and it can’t do that properly with us unabling it all over the place.

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Lipton T. Bagg April 26, 2010 at 10:55 am

I did a piece on this today – would appreciate your comments.

http://viewedfromtheright.blogspot.com/2010/04/school-lunch-cap-trade-amnesty-for.html

BTW, simply for the jealousy it will invoke I’m posting pictures of my HUGE lettuce plants after lunch…..

-LTB
(The “L” does not stand for lettuce…)

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harkin April 27, 2010 at 5:25 pm

I object to generalizations no matter who’s makin them. Of course it’s possile to mistake an American citizen for an illegal. There are entire communities now heavily illegal where the legal kids don’t have to speak english at all. My mother was raised in a spanish speaking household and she didn’t speak conversational english until she was eight, and she was born in 1935 in Los Angeles.

I have been stopped numerous times at the border and asked to prove I was an american. That didn’t bother me at all because it’s the right of the citizens of a country to protect its borders.

I am totally against illegal immigration but be careful about declaing that all illegals carry themselves a certain way or wear a certain type of clothing. It smacks of ignorance and doesn’t help the cause for secure borders.

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harkin April 27, 2010 at 5:39 pm

Oh yeah –

The windows of my soul I throw
Wide open to the sun.

JGW – on the east wall at the Broadway Whittwood

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Little Miss Attila April 27, 2010 at 5:49 pm

“[B]e careful about declaing that all illegals carry themselves a certain way or wear a certain type of clothing. It smacks of ignorance and doesn’t help the cause for secure borders.”

FWIW, I did not say that, and do not think it.

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harkin April 28, 2010 at 5:21 am

“FWIW, I did not say that, and do not think it.”

“But there are plenty of people who are unambiguously illegal immigrants, and they really stick out. Not because of skin color, and not because of language skills. It’s about clothing, body language, and the way they carry themselves.”

Please describe the clothing, body language and/or the way they carry themselves (which seems redundant) that makes them obviously (unambigulously, really stick out) illegal to you. I’m truly interested to know what they do/wear that makes you certain they are undocumented.

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Foxfier April 28, 2010 at 6:08 am

They’re the ones who look illegal. Same way my husband, even with shaggy hair and a Jesus beard, is OBVIOUSLY former military. It’s something you learn by long exposure– sort of like how good cooks use recipes as guidelines, or good teachers learn to read what sort of student they face.

I’m HORRIBLE at reading people, and even I pick up on some folks.

And “body language” is how you move when responding to someone; how you carry yourself is even if no-one is interacting with you.

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harkin April 28, 2010 at 7:09 am

You react foxfier but you do not answer. I did not ask what body language is, i asked for examples of body language/clothing that marks one as indisputedly illegal.

Please describe how one can ‘look illegal’. If you can’t provide an example other than “it’s obvious”, then I will stick to my opinion that this really is an unfortunate line of thought. If you and LMA can truly provide accurate and effective profiling criteria, then you need to get it to the AZ authorities asap.

It reminds me of the scene in In Cold Blood where the tipster tells the cop a ‘foreigner’ commited the murders and he saw him run away. When the cops asks him how he knew the man was foreign, the answer is because “he ran like a foreigner”.

It also reminds me of the time I spent working in Puerto Rico where the locals would tell me how Americans were so obvious that you could spot them a mile away, minutes after mistaking me (an American with over seven generations of american residence in my family tree) for a Puerto Rican.

And FWIW, I am not trying to rip on either LMA or yourself, I’m trying to address statements from people on the right side of the issue from saying things that can be used against them…and the cause.

The only way people should be judged on their documentation status is their documentation, not whether they fit your (or anyone’s) criteria for what an illegal looks like. And I know LMA will answer that she never said that, but if she gives her original “I Don’t See It” an honest re-reading, she has to understand that’s what she implied, rather obviously if you ask me.

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Little Miss Attila April 28, 2010 at 10:08 am

Wait. Are you suggesting that I feel body language or clothing choices constitute freakin’ probable cause? ‘Cause that’s whacked.

Did you actually read the Hot Air post I linked to, regarding the likelihood that a Mexican-American (or other Hispanic-American/American of Hispanic descent) might be arrested for not having the correct documents with him or her?

My point is that that is unlikely to happen, because 1) the cops need PC to stop anyone in the first place, and 2) there will have to be a couple of triggers [or at least one] to get them to pop the question about whether the person has documentation in the first place.

This is not an issue of asking everyone on the street for their papers, or even everyone who has a decent, reddish-toned, my-brotherish suntan.

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harkin April 28, 2010 at 1:48 pm

“Wait. Are you suggesting that I feel body language or clothing choices constitute freakin’ probable cause? ‘Cause that’s whacked.”

Of course it’s whacked, I made that sarcastic statement about the AZ authorities based on your premise that you can tell some illegals based on body language and clothing.

“Did you actually read the Hot Air post I linked to, regarding the likelihood that a Mexican-American (or other Hispanic-American/American of Hispanic descent) might be arrested for not having the correct documents….”

I read the article but didn’t see anything worth commenting on, which is why what I did comment on was your assertion that you could tell some illegals based on clothing and body language.

“My point is that that is unlikely to happen, because 1) the cops need PC to stop anyone in the first place, and 2) there will have to be a couple of triggers [or at least one] to get them to pop the question about whether the person has documentation in the first place.

You say now that that was your point but if you re-read your original post you may notice that you never mention probable cause nor arrest nor asking people for documentation. I was taught in english classes from grammar sch to college that you always lead with your main premise. What do you lead with?

“There’s no way anyone from the Southwest is going to mistake an American citizen for a Mexican national.”

The main thrust of your entire post is that YOU can tell some illegals just by their clothing and/or the way they carry themselves. Not only that, you also say that this power applies to everyone in “the Southwest”.

Once more and for the last time (if you evade answering again that is answer enough):

1) What type of clothing makes someone ‘really stick out’ as an illegal immigrant?

2) What sort of body language (or the way one manages to ‘carry themselves’) do people have to exhibit to make them ‘unambiguously illegal immigrants’?

These questions should be easy to answer if your OP was based on any sort of logical thought.

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Little Miss Attila April 28, 2010 at 2:15 pm

What you’re asking is the equivalent of asking for the exact pronunciations of words that mark someone as having a dialect, before you will concede that a dialect exists.

That is to say, you’re suggesting that my point doesn’t have merit unless I agree to dance to your tune. And I will not, because I’ve got better things to do with my time than go to East L.A. and study clothing in order to enter the most properly descriptive language into the comments section of my blog, so that I may give you the exact details regarding the cultural clues I speak of.

My post was not a stand-alone post. It was a response to AllahP’s statement that “I just hope The Artist Formerly Known as Maverick is prepared for damage control if/when Arizona cops start arresting American citizens. Won’t be pretty.”

Because it’s absurd to sugget that AZ cops are going to start arresting American citizens. Patently absurd.

I know it. You can choose not to know it if you like, just as you can choose to deny that there is any such thing as an Italian accent because I’m not prepared to give you a linguist’s analysis of what constitutes such a thing.

What next? Deny that there is such a thing as a cat, unless I sketch one out for you?

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Foxfier April 28, 2010 at 4:57 pm

You react foxfier but you do not answer. I did not ask what body language is, i asked for examples of body language/clothing that marks one as indisputedly illegal.

… Is English not your first language, or are you just not paying any attention at all?

You said you couldn’t see a difference between body language and how one carries one’s self (“body language and/or the way they carry themselves (which seems redundant)”) so I explained it.

I answered, and you did not like, or possibly understand, the answer. That is entirely different from not answering.

The main thrust of your entire post is that YOU can tell some illegals just by their clothing and/or the way they carry themselves. Not only that, you also say that this power applies to everyone in “the Southwest”.

The first paragraph you wrote in the reply where you claim this, you admit that it’s not true– “based on your premise that you can tell some illegals based on body language and clothing”.

I now accept that you do speak English as a first language, or at least proficiently, and are just a troll by either intention or nature. Not worth the time.

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harkin April 28, 2010 at 7:11 pm

“That is to say, you’re suggesting that my point doesn’t have merit unless I agree to dance to your tune. And I will not, because I’ve got better things to do with my time than go to East L.A. and study clothing in order to enter the most properly descriptive language into the comments section of my blog, so that I may give you the exact details regarding the cultural clues I speak of.”

You need to go to East L.A. to study clothing and learn the proper cultural terms? Are you serious? Do you even realize that once you learned these terms they would only be of value to a person who had undergone the same study? It’s really not that hard.

Here’s a helpful hint and you won’t have to get out of your chair: There is this thing called the internet and on it there is a search engine called Google. Just enter the words ‘illegal immigrant’, ‘immigration protest’, ‘mara salvatrucha’ or ‘La Raza’ and search IMAGES. Please find ONE image of a person you can tell is an illegal based on their clothing. That’s it and it will help everyone understand wth you’re talking about.

I realize this won’t work for your ‘body language’ theory but hey we can’t get everything we want.

Foxfire, you declare me a troll because I ask for some shred of evidence that clothing or body language/how one carries oneself brands them as an illegal……well, at least better evidence than your in-depth:

“They’re the ones who look illegal.”

I will let that speak for itself.

Once again and to counter the ‘troll’/’better things to do with my time’ meme:

I am 100% against illegal immigration and pro secure borders. The site operator has declared that the ability to spot an illegal immigrant has nothing to do with race and very little to do with language but is really based on one’s clothing and/or body movements/posture. I objected to this ridiculous premise and have been called names and been given all sorts of evasiveness but nothing remotely resembling a direct answer.

As to how this discussion ended up with my inability to admit the reality of such a thing as a cat…….or an italian accent….well….no me interesso un cazzo

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Little Miss Attila April 29, 2010 at 1:18 am

I’m really, really trying to think of things that might have gotten up your butt, other than 1) being a concern troll, or 2) imagining that you and I agree on very much in particular, politically, and that you therefore are in a position to criticize my writing.

I shall assume that there is some option #3 out there of some sort, because I am in a charitable mood.

But I do not buy the notion that the average illegal immigrant is the least bit likely to show up at a political protest. Nor am I into the idea that a cop, having satisfied the requirements of objectivity and the need for a solid probable cause, must then throw his/her intuition out the window in dealing with a potential criminal.

Have a great day.

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harkin April 29, 2010 at 4:11 am

More troll accusations…..sigh – that’s some charity.

“But I do not buy the notion that the average illegal immigrant is the least bit likely to show up at a political protest. Nor am I into the idea that a cop, having satisfied the requirements of objectivity and the need for a solid probable cause, must then throw his/her intuition out the window in dealing with a potential criminal.”

This is very interesting. You completely ignore my requests for an easy answer to your clothing theories regarding illegals to argue against something I never said.

And yet you say that you’re “really really trying” (your words) to think of why I disagree with you (NOT your words).

It isn’t hard, but as long as you refuse to even discuss the ridiculous premise that you can spot some illegals just by lookin at ’em, you really arent going to move off the square you’re stuck on.

As I said before, lack of an answer is really an answer in itself.

And to quote you again:

“But I do not buy the notion that the average illegal immigrant is the least bit likely to show up at a political protest.”

I do not know what the “average illegal immigrant” means to you, but get ready for a dose of reality on May 5. As someone who has seen photos of earlier protests downtown and at Montebello HS, I can only imagine you’ve been living in a cave.

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